Game of Thrones: Why Daenerys Was Cersei All Along - Two Sides of the Same Queen

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The Take

The Take

3 місяці тому

Go to nordvpn.com/thetake and use code thetake to get 75% off a 3-year plan. Protect yourself online today! | As it turns out, Daenerys Targaryen and Cersei Lannister are two sides of the same queen all along, even if they start out essentially as opposites. The final showdown between these two queens has always been the endgame, and their conflict reveals the true message about Game of Thrones. If you like this video, subscribe to our channel or support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/thetake
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game of thronesgame of thrones season 8game of thrones season 8 episode 5game of thrones season 8 episode 6

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The Take
The Take 3 місяці тому
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Dammoh
Dammoh 17 днів тому
The Take what's the background music from 6:10 please
pplr1
pplr1 2 місяці тому
I have to call bs on a lot of things in this video. I watched the whole thing and it deserves a thumbs down by the end. I noted some reasons and about when they pop up in the video. The video seems to be confused by saying both do __ when “inverse” is the opposite. It starts recognizing their differences and then tries to pretend they are the same. Problem is that is not true. Daenerys freed many slaves, how many did Cersei? 4:40-recognizes Daenerys freed people while Cersei oppressed. Also recognized that Daenerys chained her dragons out of concern for others while Cersei let Joffery run rampant. 5:45 be like Daenerys try to reshape the world in a better way and “help those who have even less” 5:58 Cersei “hurts others for the hell of it” and chooses not to help others. 7:31-45 Cersei hates and fears the people 8:40 Cersei threatens to burn cities 9:35 video said “This is fire and blood music”, yet it ignores when Daenerys said the blood of her enemies “not the innocent”. 10:00 video blames Daenerys for her dead baby by being too trusting, there is a big difference between too trusting and Cersei choosing to kill her son’s wife (resulting in the son’s suicide). 10:10 video misrepresent’s Cersei’s letter upfront demand (and threatening?) and Daenerys more friendly letter-written by Tyrion (who wants help ending Cersei’s tyranny.) The video claims after the friendly letter Daenerys demands Jon bend the knee when he gets there and thus is supposedly more dishonest. Yet Daenerys-when Jon refuses to bend the knee-said he is a guest. Oh, and Tyrion-not Daenerys-wrote the letter, he tends to be nicer than Cersei. Actually they both tend to be nicer than Cersei. 10:24 video wrongly claims Cersei wants less from Jon than Daenerys by supposedly only asking for neutrality. Yet this is a blatant lie. We learn afterwards that Cersei had made a plan beforehand with Euron to have Euron pretend he was fleeing when he was really getting mercenaries for Cersei. She never planned to help and the whole eventual agreement to send Lannister forces was an act and big lie. If anything Cersei was trying to cost Daenerys a possible ally since it was unlikely Jon would ever ally with her. 10:50 the video shows Cersei saying she doesn’t care about checking her worst impulses or making the world a better place. It actually has gone back to recognizing Cersei. 10:55 claims Daenerys’s attempts at compromise don’t go well so she goes fire and blood. Very misleading because Daenerys tried compromises and used fire and blood when those compromises were betrayed. Daenerys is not responsible for when others betray or try to attack her-they are. The video tries to say she is. 11:50 self-centered world vision ignores that Daenerys built what she had but also tried to do it in a way that didn’t harm, even helped, the powerless. Remember season 4 when Daenerys had places to sleep and eat made for former slaves and planned to make them safe the minute she heard there was a problem. Very different than Cersei who would not care. 12:09 Cersei talks about caring about her family yet she tried to have Tyrion killed-he is part of her family. This video is ignoring things here. Selective editing? 12:29 The video looses its point when complaining about “medieval logic”. That is how society operated at the time. Neither Cersei nor Daenerys made that happen. And if complaining about them then complain about every member of a every noble family in the show. It is called a “social norm”. 12:51 Daenerys’s supposed complex resulted in her telling someone she cared about not to give up but to try finding a cure-and he did. Thus she told him to save his life when he had already given up. Not a bad thing. 13:01 Daenerys supposedly didn’t compromise?? She did that with Jon Snow in season 7 through most of the time he was her guest!! She did that in Meereen as well. This video is just wrong here-possibly dishonest. 13:19 “Daenerys is ruthless like Cersei”. No. She is ruthless with her enemies, but not the innocent. If Cersei had dragons she would’ve let them eat innocent people across the countryside. Daenerys did not. Big false equivalence. 13:20 She was talking to a guy, Varys, who had tried to undermine his prior leaders and thus didn’t trust him. When he told her just beforehand he would not give blind loyalty she accepted it. Requiring him to say directly if he thought she was failing the people to her face and how (shows she is willing to take criticism). This is both compromising and taking other people’s concerns into account. The opposite of what the video claimed earlier. 13:33 video said they look like each other Cersei in black (or dark cloths) and with crown, Daenerys in light tan and no crown. Someone can see the video is wrong or lying here. Oh, and it is right before Cersei killed Missandei-who never hurt or enslaved anyone. 13:36 Video said “Shared rage” when look on Daenerys’s face may be concern for Missandei. The video is wrong here. 13:50 Video claimed Daenerys didn’t choose between her “selfish ambition” and her “liberator identity”. Yet the main reason she stayed in Meereen so long (where video shows her) is to protect the people she freed rather than leave to grab her birth kingdom and let the slavers regain control. She delayed her ambitions-that is making a choice. The video is lying here and similar can be said about the white walker army which she goes to fight and puts her war for the throne on hold to do. 14:10 Cersei is shown using civilians as human shields. Daenerys didn’t ever do this. These are very different queens and the video is being deceptive. 14:31 Daenerys saying “I will not let those I have freed slide back into chains.” Anyone see Cersei saying or trying to do that? Nope. Different people. 15:44 We get the answer of D and D breaking Daenerys’s character to do a pre-selected plot point. This was not showing Daenerys but what D and D wanted her to do without providing good reasons for it. 15:50 If Daenerys chose “violence” then why not go directly to the red keep and burn Cersei like she would an enemy? D and D chose to make Daenerys let Cersei almost get away in order to attack civilians. This is out of character for Daenerys in 2 big ways-her protection of the innocent and her fire for her enemies. This goes against 2 not just 1 aspect of Daenerys’s character. 16:05 If Daenerys was punishing her enemies then why almost let Cersei get away? Cersei didn’t care about civilians so why burn them at all? 16:52 If belonging to that blood line means you flip out and kill everyone if your friends aren’t around should we expect that to happen with Jon Snow? If the answer is no then just maybe we shouldn’t accept the character breaking relating to Daenerys from D and D either. 17:02 repeating D and D’s weak excuses is not character development. Showing the death of someone she warned earlier that chose to pull a sword and threaten to kill her and her unborn child is not proving Daenerys is evil. This is a huge double standard. Just consider anyone in the whole series who would want someone that just threatened to murder them and their children dead-lets start with the Stark family. If they aren’t evil tyrants in the making than neither is Daenerys. 17:25 If Daenerys’s friends and advisors are killed or go distant that isn’t usually Daenerys’s choice. Which means she had no choice and this was supposedly inevitable. So the video isn’t being straight with viewers on if this was going to happen or not. 17:40. Video said “We always have a choice”, not if D and D choose to break characters and patterns of action to hit their preferred plot points. Lets let Daenerys character as it was during seasons 1-7 (season 8 was written to give excuses for this to happen, its been acknowledged that D and D had this event in mind and were trying to jump to it) make the decision on what happens with King’s Landing.. oh look no mass burning of civilians. 18:00 She doesn’t become the “mad queen” because of her genes. Wasn’t the video just referring to her bloodline a couple of minutes earlier?? This is speaking out of both sides of its mouth. 18:10 Correction.. She could’ve still been the ruler she wanted to be if D and D didn’t mess with her character in Season 8. Also if she decided to attack Kings Landing in season 7 then that would be choosing violence but a lot of her friends would still be alive after Cersei was dead, so the civilian population would probably be quite safe. I guess the real message is violence is only ok if your friends are around. Or maybe, just maybe, the video here is just trying to make excuses at this point.
algogy
algogy 3 місяці тому
They are not the same queen. Cersei is more reasonable, she kills her opponents, for revenge, for power. Her father killed for political reasons. Ramsey kills for fun. Dany? She kills for no reason whatsoever. They made her completely insane 'because blood ya know'.
loredana godorogea
loredana godorogea 3 місяці тому
I read the books and this is one things that all americans who never read russian literature will never gets(Martin Likes it). In War and Peace Lev Tolstoy make the oposite mirror personages which are put in same situation but act different. It's showed in book, when Deny gets some authority first thing she do is stop women being raped and tries to make them equal, while cercei always treat all women with disrespect . Also she always think what is best for her people, how much to stay in Vaes Toloro, where to go, she also performe all rituals when someone dies. When a handmaid please Deny, she reject it because she respect her and never use her as sex object. Cercei abduct women . When Deny becomes queen she carries for citizen, make rules, make audience, listen the needs of people, when Cercei gets power she start whoring, drinking and act like Robert. When Sickness death and War come to Mereen, Dany delivers food, wash the sick people, wash the bodies, make their funerar with a help of o few unsulied. What Cercei did when war, death, food crisis come to king's landing? Their are shape like opposite of each other not same personne.
Wolfgang Von Zubaz
Wolfgang Von Zubaz 3 місяці тому
Good analysis ... Dany dresses up her ambitions like a modern politician uses "humanitarian intervention" to rationalize destruction and "other" objectives ... Libya and Syria are good examples
PJFSr
PJFSr 5 годин тому
Shame most people focus on Sansa and Cersei, who are really as different as night and day. Should have a comparison of the 3 Danny, Sansa and Cersei. I think the fact Sansa had her parents in her early stage of life and a loving family is what saved her from becoming totally like the other two. Also like Cersei and Danny, her line was a product of 1st cousin incest.
suhe cheng
suhe cheng 3 дні тому
never liked danny,until he decide to attack white walker
Brett Cole
Brett Cole 4 дні тому
*insert shameless plug
Archen Forever
Archen Forever 4 дні тому
BEST CHARACTERS EVER.
GiniroTsuki
GiniroTsuki 5 днів тому
A very interesting take on this, I never noticed the parallels. However, I still don't really agree that it makes sense that Dany destroyed Kings Landing. I agree that Cersei set it up so that Dany would have to choose between the people and the crown, but in the end Dany didn't HAVE to make that decision. She'd already won with very little casualties. If they'd set it up in such a way that Dany's army was losing, the throne slipping further and further away and the only way she would win was if she let Drogon go crazy burning the city down, then yeah. I can see that being plausible. But this? There was no need for this. No reason Dany would have lost it like that. She'd already won. I'm also getting really tired of people pointing out Dany's ruthlessness and saying they were signs of a budding tyrant when other "righteous" characters had done just as bad things in the past and no one bats an eye. I think the entire plot of Dany becoming the mad queen was rushed and not well executed. I'm sure George R.R. Martin will handle it much, much better.
colpul2
colpul2 5 днів тому
too bad the series turned to ass.
Mohammed Alshamekh
Mohammed Alshamekh 5 днів тому
Let’s use clips of Danny without context and call her the mad queen! Next
Amanda Shen
Amanda Shen 6 днів тому
This is exactly how I see Dany since the beginning. Never like her.
Silver Lady
Silver Lady 7 днів тому
This video is idiotic and should have 0 likes.
Jake Casso
Jake Casso 7 днів тому
not even close
Jane Austen
Jane Austen 9 днів тому
I love this video sm!
Betssy Lopez
Betssy Lopez 10 днів тому
their character arches were ruined in seasons 7 & 8. this video helps explain what d&d we’re trying to do, & maybe would’ve been able to with more time & better writing
Hana A
Hana A 10 днів тому
I think you are putting meaning into shit writing. If GRRM ever finishes we might find out you're right with intent, but until that miracle happens Dany turned evil because Dumb and Dumber couldn't write a plot if their lives were on the line
Steph
Steph 10 днів тому
Lena’s acting was stellar work.
FrenchFryKayak
FrenchFryKayak 10 днів тому
just came to say LOL :P
Jarma
Jarma 11 днів тому
Deep. I said from the start of the show that danis desire to rule was evil but I still call bullshit. she would NOT have done it if she was full of rage, she MIGHT have gone after Cersei after the bell rang she would NOT have sacrificed the innocents
Olga Efremov
Olga Efremov 12 днів тому
Thank you! Amazing work it is. :) Daene always scared me at each of her evil reactions, even if she has a lovely face... It was pretty cruel to ask Jon bend the knee before offering her help in the war with Night King. Really?! The Throne is more important than the walking dead?! Or when she found out Jon is the true heir to the Throne, again - her reaction?!?!?! She became obsessed to get the toy - the throne! So, her choice was no surprise to me. She saw it from up in the sky on a dragon, everything was small to her. I think Ser Jorah was the one who would have "tamed" her so-to-say madness. Her punishments always were cruel, terrifyingly cruel. And I still appreciate her attempt to be kind, but Jon is the kind hearted one untill the end.
Frankie Fontecchio
Frankie Fontecchio 13 днів тому
Dany going mad wasn't odd 4 the show because of who she is a TARGARYEN and because of who her father was the mad king
perman07
perman07 13 днів тому
This video blatantly ignores all the examples of Dany showing empathy and restraining herself from cruelty. The issue isn't that anyone doubts she had it in her based on her earlier showing of cruelty, the issue is it came out of nowhere without proper buildup.
Vivek C Nair
Vivek C Nair 14 днів тому
This is just a load of nonsense!! She only said this after the episode was aired.
s
s 17 днів тому
Joffrey and Viserys also shared a lot of similarities
Dammoh
Dammoh 17 днів тому
what's the music from 6:00 please
Dammoh
Dammoh 17 днів тому
Please can someone tell me what is the background music from 6:22 please please
Dammoh
Dammoh 17 днів тому
dany isn't blond per se
Arielle Prinzing
Arielle Prinzing 19 днів тому
I thought I'd heard it all but this video actually presented a new angle. Very well done, thank you!
D Will
D Will 19 днів тому
meh too much of a stretch and you cant use season 6-8 and talk about what Martin meant
Sabrina Zanoletti
Sabrina Zanoletti 20 днів тому
as little finger once said "Cersei is good at obtaining power but not at handling it" its the same as dany she gets power quickly but quickly we see her downfall
N Marrs
N Marrs 20 днів тому
I heard a rumor that GOT was originally a story for George RR Martin’s daughter. As you point out that story is centered around these two woman, it makes sense to me that this story is a tale for his daughter to take away a moral as how to deal with a world where woman are treated as lesser. And the pit falls of what you might become if you let power corrupt you.
jasayehan
jasayehan 21 день тому
There's a huge difference between faith in oneself vs selfishness.
Joshua Kim
Joshua Kim 21 день тому
Well that aged well.
certioremfacere
certioremfacere 21 день тому
"incredibly bright, powerful women." cersei is incredibly stupid. that's one of her character flaws. she thinks she is more intelligent that she is. it results in her advancing through sheer violence and cruelty to seek more power and revenge with no real end game which is why she is cornered with no allies and dies at the end. not really an "incredibly bright" thing to do.
Christian Dixon
Christian Dixon 21 день тому
this is a very good analysis I just wish it was a bit less subtle while watching. the writers created these biases in our heads & now are going back & saying "oh yeah Dany was always chilling" ok so write it that way. make characters respond to each character's (Dany & Cersei's) actions in the same way. show explicitly just how similar they are. up until the 7th/8th season, no one had a problem w/ Dany. don't all of a sudden start adopting an ideal like that & expect us to jump on board.
Tori Nyree'
Tori Nyree' 22 дні тому
Dont evet compare the 2
D R A D R A
D R A D R A 22 дні тому
Dany as much as I love her, was really fixated on the iron throne which was her downfall. She had everything back in the other continent but her obsession got over her. Id also blame her brother for always getting it in her head.
TheNubianBeauty
TheNubianBeauty 22 дні тому
I always loved Cersei and understood her twisted mind. I never liked Dani no matter how many times I tried too. 😅
theodore carperos
theodore carperos 23 дні тому
Great video
Vicente René
Vicente René 23 дні тому
I insist: The take videos about game of thrones were better than season 8
Silberlein isReal
Silberlein isReal 24 дні тому
Really liked your explanation, however, I doubt D&D intended what you concluded
Kris P
Kris P 22 дні тому
thought this was a good video till they used D&D, I believe nothing they say
HorseGirlb
HorseGirlb 24 дні тому
I wanna see Game of Thrones from the point of view of someone who actually loves the Lannisters and truly believes they are the best house to rule the country. Probably would have to find people from their own lands, not the people of King's Landing. Or maybe get up close & personal with some of their soldiers, the way we saw how Bolin got sucked into Kuviera's army. Idk, just might be cool if we could possibly see the whole thing again in a totally different perspective.
Golden Rose
Golden Rose 24 дні тому
Dany becoming mad isnt bad but it was done extreemly badly and rushed. Not to mention it was full of plotholes and plenty of characters had to have their entire personality changed to make it happen
Sam L
Sam L 26 днів тому
Deanyers is not an incest baby her mother was a Martel
Sansana Samsara
Sansana Samsara 23 дні тому
Her parents were literally brother and sister. King Aerys and Queen Rhaella. The Martell one was her sister in law, Rhaegar's wife Ellia Martell.
Fighting Eel Warehouse
Fighting Eel Warehouse 26 днів тому
Cersei knew what she was, and didn't care. Dany tried to hide it. I much prefer Cersei...
A Near
A Near 26 днів тому
The Targaryens and Lannisters are inverse versions of one another and both represent similar versions of power/authority/rule- 🐉 Targaryens are red and Black They are the dragon which rules the sky Their words are fire and blood The Targaryens represent almost supernatural strength, they take whatever they want and inspire awe and fear. They are even considered to be neither men nor gods. The dragon fits them perfectly. They are conquerors. The Lannisters 🦁 are crimson (deep vivid red) and gold. Their words are hear me roar and a Lannister always pays his debts. They are the lion which rules the earth They represent narcissism and superiority, getting over on others to make their way to the top of the pyramid. Pride with an appealing outer appearance with their good looks and being the richest family in the country.
MrNetWraith
MrNetWraith 27 днів тому
It's nice to see somebody else figuring out that Daenerys was intended to be a villain all along, although the idea of her as a mirror to Cersei was new. Really, the seeds of "The Bells" were planted back in the first season - not just when she watched her brother killed without batting an eye (recall Tyrion, whose own relationship with Cersei was just as bad if not worse, still wept to find her dead in the ruins), but also when she executed Mirri by burning her at the stake for calling her out on the fact that Khal Drogo was an evil man who raped and pillaged, and "The Stallion Who Mounts The World" would have been even worse. We watched Daenerys plotting, scheming, killing and raging through eight long seasons, and most people made excuses for her. Until she finally showed, once and for all, who she really is.
Vincisomething
Vincisomething 27 днів тому
Dany was meant to be the mad queen, but it was the way the show was executed that made people hate it. No one (at least most who are familiar with the books) is mad Dany became that person who burns down an entire city, what's infuriating is how the show didn't properly show her descent from "poor, innocent Dany" to "khaleesi Dany" to "mad queen Dany." Throughout the seasons, you could see Dany grow, but her becoming a mad queen at the very last season just felt like a 180. This is one time where they should've made more than 8 seasons lol.
nyx alone
nyx alone 27 днів тому
Yeah except Cersei had build up and development as a bad person. And Daenerys was just like ehhhh fuck it kill em all.
How do I change my photo?
How do I change my photo? 28 днів тому
Yeah, they are the same Queen because of these things and because D&D decided to switch their characters. Cersei was supposed to have a miscarriage and go Mad Queen, and Daenerys, was supposed to be pregnant, think of her child and burn down only the Red Keep. And Mad Queen Cersei detonate all the Wildfire to blame Dany for all the destruction and get killed. But only the old gods and the new know if what have I written was the official season eight. Idk
Stitchman3875
Stitchman3875 28 днів тому
Both actresses played Sarah Connor. Emilia Clarke in Terminator Genisys. Lena Headey in The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
Noel Ogden
Noel Ogden Місяць тому
Making Daenerys choose evil and focusing so much on that ruined season 8.
Abhinanda Chowdhury
Abhinanda Chowdhury Місяць тому
Cersei:hated her husband,would do anything to protect her children and never use them in her plots, kills Baratheon bastards,burns people alive who rejoiced at her shame, gains the humanity in her last moments. Dany:loved her husband, would use her children in every way for her power,makes a new Baratheon, burns people alive who never even saw her,loses the humanity in her last moments.Mirrors
Yudirsa Makhlouf
Yudirsa Makhlouf Місяць тому
I don’t agree at all. Cersei is not anywhere as intelligent as she is portrayed in the show. Also Dany is a lot more amazing and mature in the books
JuliefromNeth
JuliefromNeth Місяць тому
Great analysis!
CJ Everyday #1
CJ Everyday #1 Місяць тому
I won't watch this channel again since you have not obviously researched very well. Main point got but not the same story
BrainNeedsFood
BrainNeedsFood Місяць тому
I think Daenerys' entire arc was done masterfully: she was always the monster hiding in plain sight, but she also had so many redeeming features we just didn't want to see it.
Zimuahaha
Zimuahaha Місяць тому
Too bad it was so poorly done in the show.
Josue2018
Josue2018 Місяць тому
She wasn’t. Cersei made her mad. Cersei killed her best friend and dragon!
Fire Bird
Fire Bird Місяць тому
I don’t think I completely disagree with D&D on Mad Queen Daenerys, but the Season was far from perfect. I disliked the quick and easy death they gave the Night King. Also there were no spiders, Wight dire wolves or anything. Let’s just say it could’ve been a lot better. What I was rooting for was Dragon vs Wight Viserion above the Red Keep. I would’ve loved that. ☺️
Fire Bird
Fire Bird Місяць тому
Daenerys’s fatal flaw is that she breaks when she can’t find win-win situations
Fire Bird
Fire Bird Місяць тому
It’s all about the perspective
Justice Hobbs
Justice Hobbs Місяць тому
But season 7-8 dany was a problematic brat and I hated that
Justice Hobbs
Justice Hobbs Місяць тому
Dany burning the khals was well deserved ;)
ArcanineDE
ArcanineDE Місяць тому
Good video. Kinda shows that the shows ending isnt bad contentwise. But atrociously executed
David Lynch
David Lynch Місяць тому
if Dany had to go nuts it should have been over ten episodes not two.
N R
N R Місяць тому
Showdown? You could only wish
Tom McDermott
Tom McDermott Місяць тому
They are very similar, but I'd have to disagree on the incredibly bright characteristic. Both of them relied far more on a cult of personality, while the intellectual heavy lifting was handled by their respective advisers. Dan and Cersei had a certain degree of base cunning, but were often too naive, too vicious, or too blinded to make the best decisions; I really liked that they're portrayed as realistic rulers in that they aren't perfect beings of power. They certainly have strengths, but they have flaws and weaknesses as well, and they shore those up by surrounding themselves with a team to fill the gaps. They both had charisma in spades, something that they each made expert use of in their rule.
Felipe Fuentes Lizama
Felipe Fuentes Lizama Місяць тому
You are amazing! I Love it
kyle robin
kyle robin Місяць тому
When Tywin insisted Cersei marry Lauris, Cersei argued she was not a "broodmare" just as Dany had previously indicated she was also not.
Kristen Nowlin
Kristen Nowlin Місяць тому
Show Dany is more ruthless. The “break the wheel”, “I will rule”, “do as I say or I will burn you” are all created for the show. Book Dany NEVER thought this. She often thinks that she’ll give up the throne for the good of the realm. Show Dany is a bitch is Qarth but book Dany is very humble and never harms a soul except for the warlock who tries to murder her. She never (so far) uses her dragons as a fear tactic; she uses them carefully as to not lose them. She thinks before she acts unlike Cersei who acts before she thinks.
Kristen Nowlin
Kristen Nowlin Місяць тому
I’ve thought this for years. The similarities are more obvious in the books. When naked in front of a crowd, Dany is worshipped while Cersei is mocked. When given the chance of incest, Dany flees from it while Cersei runs to it. They are known by their cruel family, but Dany turns from the stereotype while Cersei embraces it. Cersei rules through fear and power; Dany rules through love and freedom. They both use sex to get what they want from men, but Cersei does it on a whim for her own good while Dany does it as a last result for the good of her people. Dany would give up the throne for her people; Cersei wouldn’t give up power to save anyone but maybe her children. If they made different choices, Cersei could be loved like Dany or Dany could be feared like Cersei. I will see what happens in the books.
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